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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) "Diversity" in Kashmir (Read 383 times)
patrick2
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"Diversity" in Kashmir
Aug 9th, 2019 at 2:44am
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The indian government has ended the "special status" which attempted to preserve the status quo between muslims and Hindus.  A fourth war may now be fought over the issue.  Apparently, people in that area don't consider "diversity" a "strength".
  
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The D-Man
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Re: "Diversity" in Kashmir
Reply #1 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 3:13am
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I think "Diversity is our greatest strength" and "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should" came from the same place.
« Last Edit: Aug 9th, 2019 at 3:18am by The D-Man »  

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Re: "Diversity" in Kashmir
Reply #2 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 6:41am
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You guys are working overtime to deflect and deny!

Couple more days and you'll have everything rationalized away and the diversity crowd will reflect all that is wrong with society. Good job!  Thumbs Up
  

If you are more fortunate than others, build a longer table, not a taller fence.

Oh noes! Virtue Signaling!!
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Demos
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Re: "Diversity" in Kashmir
Reply #3 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 1:14pm
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patrick2 wrote on Aug 9th, 2019 at 2:44am:
The indian government has ended the "special status" which attempted to preserve the status quo between muslims and Hindus.

And? Do you see that as a good or bad thing? Was Kashmir's autonomy really a problem?

Quote:
Apparently, people in that area don't consider "diversity" a "strength".

Yeah, Hindu nationalists.

Some background on this issue:

Modi’s Majoritarian March to Kashmir

Kashmir Is a Dress Rehearsal for Hindu Nationalist Fantasies

Inside Kashmir’s Crisis—And What Happens Next

Redrawn map may set off more change in Indian-ruled Kashmir
  
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Re: "Diversity" in Kashmir
Reply #4 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 4:30pm
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« Last Edit: Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:10pm by Demos »  
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patrick2
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Re: "Diversity" in Kashmir
Reply #5 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:29pm
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Demos wrote on Aug 9th, 2019 at 1:14pm:


Yeah, Hindu nationalists.



What does it matter who?  There's always a "who" or multiple "whos" which cause strife and even disintegration - diversity is not a "strength", it's a weakness. 


Meanwhile, here's how Kasmiris are enjoying their "diversity":

The humiliations and abuses by Indian soldiers are of long vintage. Reporters who were able to go to Kashmir when the insurgency exploded in 1989 were confronted by soldiers and the hated Central Reserve Police, slouching around shops and along the streets of Srinagar with rifles pointed at the chests or abdomens of passers-by. Doctors at Srinagar’s biggest hospital showed reporters the singed backs of patients where hot laundry irons had been pressed by security forces, and limbs withered by rollers that had destroyed muscles, apparently leading to kidney damage.


https://www.thenation.com/article/kashmir-india-modi-bjp-muslims/

  
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Re: "Diversity" in Kashmir
Reply #6 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:37pm
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patrick2 wrote on Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:29pm:
What does it matter who?

Because there doesn't seem to be an issue of diversity. (Even minus Kashmir, India is a diverse nation). This appears to be about India's long standing claims to Pakistan Kashmir and China's Aksai Chin:

However, on Tuesday, Shah clarified the matter by explaining that “Kashmir is an integral part of India, there is no doubt over it. When I talk about Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and Aksai Chin are included in it.” 

See the links above.

The struggle in Kashmir has long been less about "diversity" than about Pakistan and India's claims (and to a lesser extent China's) to the area.
  
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patrick2
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Re: "Diversity" in Kashmir
Reply #7 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:44pm
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Demos wrote on Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:37pm:
Because there doesn't seem to be an issue of diversity. 



Yaaaaaa riiiiiight.

Wiki:

According to an op-ed published in a BBC journal, the emphasis of the movement after 1989, ″soon shifted from nationalism to Islam.″ It also claimed that the minority community of Kashmiri Pandits, who have lived in Kashmir for centuries, were forced to leave their homeland.[395] Reports by the Indian government state 219 Kashmiri pandits were killed and around 140,000 migrated due to millitancy while over 3000 remained in the valley.[396][397] The local organisation of Pandits in Kashmir, Kashmir Pandit Sangharsh Samiti claimed that 399 Kashmiri Pandits were killed by insurgents.[398][399] Al Jazeera states that 650 Pandits were murdered by militants.[400] Human Rights Watch also blamed Pakistan for supporting militants in Kashmir, in same 2006 report it says, "There is considerable evidence that over many years Pakistan has provided Kashmiri militants with training, weapons, funding and sanctuary. Pakistan remains accountable for abuses committed by militants that it has armed and trained."[350][401][402]

[after muslim atrocities]
Our people were killed. I saw a girl tortured with cigarette butts. Another man had his eyes pulled out and his body hung on a tree. The armed separatists used a chainsaw to cut our bodies into pieces. It wasn't just the killing but the way they tortured and killed.

— A crying old Kashmiri Hindu in refugee camps of Jammu told BBC news reporter[395]

The violence was condemned and labelled as ethnic cleansing in a 2006 resolution passed by the United States Congress.[403] It stated that the Islamic terrorists infiltrated the region in 1989 and began an ethnic cleansing campaign to convert Kashmir into a Muslim state. According to the same resolution, since then nearly 400,000 Pandits were either murdered or forced to leave their ancestral homes.[404]

According to a Hindu American Foundation report, the rights and religious freedom of Kashmiri Hindus have been severely curtailed since 1989, when there was an organised and systematic campaign by Islamist militants to cleanse Hindus from Kashmir. Less than 4,000 Kashmiri Hindus remain in the valley, reportedly living with daily threats of violence and terrorism.[405] Sanjay Tickoo, who heads the KPSS, an organisation which looks after Pandits who remain in the Valley, says the situation is complex. On one hand the community did face intimidation and violence but on the other hand he says there was no genocide or mass murder as suggested by Pandits who are based outside of Kashmir.[400]

The displaced Pandits, many of whom continue to live in temporary refugee camps in Jammu and Delhi, are still unable to safely return to their homeland.[405] The lead in this act of ethnic cleansing was initially taken by the Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front and the Hizbul Mujahideen. According to Indian media, all this happened at the instigation of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) by a group of Kashmiri terrorist elements who were trained, armed and motivated by the ISI. Reportedly, organisations trained and armed by the ISI continued this ethnic cleansing until practically all the Kashmiri Pandits were driven out after having been subjected to numerous indignities and brutalities such as rape of their women, torture, forcible seizure of property etc.[406]

The separatists in Kashmir deny these allegations. The Indian government is also trying to reinstate the displaced Pandits in Kashmir. Tahir, the district commander of a separatist Islamic group in Kashmir, stated: "We want the Kashmiri Pandits to come back. They are our brothers. We will try to protect them." But the majority of the Pandits, who have been living in pitiable conditions in Jammu, believe that, until insurgency ceases to exist, return is not possible.[395] Mustafa Kamal, brother of Union Minister Farooq Abdullah, blamed security forces, former Jammu and Kashmir governor Jagmohan and PDP leader Mufti Sayeed for forcing the migration of Kashmiri Pandits from the Valley.[407] Jagmohan denies these allegations.[395] Pro-India politician Abdul Rashid says Pandits forced the migration on themselves so Muslims can be killed. He says the plan was to leave Muslims alone and bulldoze them freely

  
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Re: "Diversity" in Kashmir
Reply #8 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:59pm
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patrick2 wrote on Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:44pm:
Yaaaaaa riiiiiight.

Again, the issues in Kashmir are caused by competition between Pakistan and India for control of the area since partition. For example, Kashmir was a 'princely state' with a Muslim majority population ruled by a Hindu king, who wanted to be independent at the time of partition (would diversity have been issue in that situation). This led Pakistan to send "marauders" into Kashmir (which it still does), causing the king to seek Indian support. See the links above.

And since we're posting walls of text:

Quote:
While it is commonplace to refer to “Kashmir” as “Muslim,” and reduce the aspirations of the entire policy to its Muslim residents, doing so does grave violence to the demographic realities. Per the most recent 2011 census, Muslim are a majority in what was the Jammu and Kashmir state: they comprise 68.31 percent of the population. Muslims are the majority in 17 out of 22 districts. Hindus, who make up 28.44 percent of total population overall, comprise a majority in four out of 22 districts.  However there is significant district- and subdistrict-level variation. While Jammu division is majority Hindu, it has three districts with Muslim majorities (Poonch, Rajouri and Doda) while three districts have very large Hindu majorities (Jammu, Kathua, and Udhampur). The division of Kashmir has six districts (Kupwara, Baramulla, Srinagar, Budgam, Pulwama and Anantnag) with Muslim majorities in excess of 90 percent. Ladakh has two districts: Muslim-majority Kargil and Buddhist-majority Leh. While most of the Muslims in the Valley are Sunni, the entire region (including that held by Pakistan) has large Shia minorities as well.

Muslim identity, contrary to popular belief, does not predict regime preferences. In 2010, Chatham House conducted the most comprehensive survey of Kashmiri attitudes across those areas controlled by India and Pakistan. (It did not survey those in the part of Kashmir ceded by Pakistani to China in 1963).  In that survey, respondents were asked if they were given the choice in a vote tomorrow, which one option they would vote for. Options included: Should Kashmir on both sides of the Line of Control (the de facto boundary separating portions of Kashmir administered by both countries) become independent? Should Kashmir join India? Should it join Pakistan? Should the Line of Control to be made an international border? Should India and Pakistan to have joint sovereignty over Kashmir? Or should there be no change in the status quo?

For that portion of Jammu and Kashmir governed by India, 43 percent indicated that they preferred independence; however, the distribution was very uneven: support for independence in the Valley ranged between 75 and 95 percent across the districts; virtually no one in any district wanted independence in Jammu; and in Ladakh (with a very small sample size) one in three in Leh district and one in five in Kargil district wanted independence. Note that this option was not envisioned in the afore-noted plebiscite detailed in UNSCR 47.

With respect to joining India, 28 percent of the residents expressed this preference with similarly wide variation. In the Kashmir Valley, support ranged from a low of two percent in Baramula to 22 percent in Anantnag. In Jammu Division, support for this option ranged from 47 percent in Jammu to 73 percent in Udhampur; however, in Punch and Rajauri six percent and zero percent respectively wanted this option. In Ladakh Division, 67 percent in Leh and 80 percent in Kargil wanted to join India.

Support for joining Pakistan was uniformly low all over, with only two percent wanting this option. There were six districts in which no one wanted to join Pakistan. Only in the Valley of Kashmir did anyone prefer joining Pakistan with support being the highest in Srinagar (six percent) and Badgam (seven percent).

Nor does religion best predict where violence has traditionally occurred in Jammu-Kashmir. Indian officials uniformly acknowledge that violence is low relative to the highs experienced in the 1990s. Following the terrorist attacks in the United States in September 2001, the Jaish-e-Mohammad attack on India’s parliament in New Delhi in December 2001 and the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba attack on Indian army families at Kaluchat in May 2002, the United States pressured Pakistan to curb terrorism in India. By 2003, terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir were at an all-time low. Violence has never since reached the levels of the 1990s. This is a function of India’s efforts to harden the Line of Control as well as different tactics and strategies pursued by the groups and their handlers in Pakistani intelligence and the army. During interviews I conducted in July and August 2019, Indian military and civilian officials and think-tank analysts explained that at present, disturbances are localized to a mere six of 22 districts in Jammu and Kashmir.

From the link above which contains a lot more information you'll most likely ignore.


  
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Limey.
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Re: "Diversity" in Kashmir
Reply #9 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 6:57pm
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Saying 'diversity'  is the problem is a classic tactic of the recent Right; take an issue, and turn it on its head.

Nationalism is the problem. Bigotry and xenophobia are the nurturing soil for nationalism.

The narrativePatrick is pushing effectively says it's the victims' fault for the bad behaviour of the bad people.


An analogy is "she deserved to be raped because she was attractive and wore a short skirt".
  

I have a new t shirt.
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