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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Mistakes happen. Just follow instructions. Good job civilian (Read 1,632 times)
Abe
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Re: Mistakes happen. Just follow instructions. Good job civilian
Reply #10 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:10am
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Maestro wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:04am:
And that's the thing.

It seems to me that a lot of the non-Libertarians* making the "I need guns to defend myself against the government" argument don't really mean it.

When given real world examples, they usually fall back on "do what you're told" argument.

*Libertarians tend to be different. They rarely make the "do what you're told" argument.



Do they make that argument or do they argue they need them as defense against the lunatics running around.

I've said this before. If they gov't decides to unleash the military on it's citizens and make it clear that those doing the bidding for the govt. along with their families are offered protection...an armed populace doesn't stand a chance.  That has often been countered with, "police, military, etc will never fire on their own" when push comes to shove.

I'm afraid we are drawing closer to finding out the answer.


« Last Edit: Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:16am by Abe »  

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Maestro
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Re: Mistakes happen. Just follow instructions. Good job civilian
Reply #11 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:15am
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crepe05 wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 7:53am:
Then let me amuse you a bit.  I claim both things because they are not mutually exclusive.  Of course, I am not so uninformed that I  don 't recognize that , as you so obviously are.


I'm sorry crepe, but they are mutually exclusive. I used the word "always" for a reason.

I understand that you can say that we should generally obey the police while keeping arms as a contingency.

That's a reasonable position.

But there have been posters in LNF that have been absolutists in their defense of the police force. They are ALWAYS to be obeyed. And some of these same posters are also proponents of the idea that we need guns to protect ourselves from the armed agents of the government.

Those are the people I'm taking about. I even had one poster justify this contradiction by saying that when the tyranny came, all of the police and military would join the opposition movement, therefore there would never be an instance where he'd have to shoot a cop or a soldier!
  

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crepe05
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Re: Mistakes happen. Just follow instructions. Good job civilian
Reply #12 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:15am
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Maestro wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:04am:
And that's the thing.

It seems to me that a lot of the non-Libertarians* making the "I need guns to defend myself against the government" argument don't really mean it.

When given real world examples, they usually fall back on "do what you're told" argument.

*Libertarians tend to be different. They rarely make the "do what you're told" argument.


If a person is surrounded by police pointing guns at thim, it is best if he follows their instructions.  Otherwise he is liable to be injured or killed.  As in this case, when he followed their instructions it all worked out very well.

What's your point in asking the question?
  
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Re: Mistakes happen. Just follow instructions. Good job civilian
Reply #13 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:18am
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crepe05 wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:15am:
If a person is surrounded by police pointing guns at thim, it is best if he follows their instructions.  Otherwise he is liable to be injured or killed.  As in this case, when he followed their instructions it all worked out very well.

What's your point in asking the question?


See my previous post.
  

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Abe
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Re: Mistakes happen. Just follow instructions. Good job civilian
Reply #14 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:19am
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Maestro wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:15am:
I'm sorry crepe, but they are mutually exclusive. I used the word "always" for a reason.

I understand that you can say that we should generally obey the police while keeping arms as a contingency.

That's a reasonable position.

But there have been posters in LNF that have been absolutists in their defense of the police force. They are ALWAYS to be obeyed. And some of these same posters are also proponents of the idea that we need guns to protect ourselves from the armed agents of the government.

Those are the people I'm taking about. I even had one poster justify this contradiction by saying that when the tyranny came, all of the police and military would join the opposition movement, therefore there would never be an instance where he'd have to shoot a cop or a soldier!



I don't know who said all would obey but it's worth wondering just how many with certain assurances would follow orders from the govt.  I honestly don't know.

I see we are mixing obeying cops with what the military might do so I'm not sure what the hell we're talking about. Wink Grin Smiley


All I can say is that if a cop has his gun drawn on me, I'm not resisting no way, no how.


  

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crepe05
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Re: Mistakes happen. Just follow instructions. Good job civilian
Reply #15 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:34am
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Maestro wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:18am:
See my previous post.


I did, and now I understand what you're talking about. 
  
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Re: Mistakes happen. Just follow instructions. Good job civilian
Reply #16 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:45am
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Maestro wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 7:18am:
I'm always a bit amused by those who claim that we should always do what the police say and who also claim that we need our guns to protect ourselves from the armed enforcers of a tyrannical government.

Yes. Who is it that you think is coming after you if the state goes full tyrannical?

Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell?
  

Wadsworth wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
We are talking about this government, aren't we?  If we were any other kind of government like China or NK, we would not even be having this discussion because you would not even be allowed to own a gun. 


Vypr wrote on Oct 15th, 2019 at 8:25am:
By all accounts Syria was somewhat calm.
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Re: Mistakes happen. Just follow instructions. Good job civilian
Reply #17 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:47am
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Abe wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:10am:
Do they make that argument or do they argue they need them as defense against the lunatics running around.

I've said this before. If they gov't decides to unleash the military on it's citizens and make it clear that those doing the bidding for the govt. along with their families are offered protection...an armed populace doesn't stand a chance.

“LOL!”

-Vietcong




“That’s cute!”

-Taliban
  

Wadsworth wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
We are talking about this government, aren't we?  If we were any other kind of government like China or NK, we would not even be having this discussion because you would not even be allowed to own a gun. 


Vypr wrote on Oct 15th, 2019 at 8:25am:
By all accounts Syria was somewhat calm.
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crepe05
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Re: Mistakes happen. Just follow instructions. Good job civilian
Reply #18 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:50am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:45am:
Yes. Who is it that you think is coming after you if the state goes full tyrannical?

Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell?


It has to be Schumer cuz Mitch has a broken shoulder.   Wink  Smiley
  
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Abe
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Re: Mistakes happen. Just follow instructions. Good job civilian
Reply #19 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 9:01am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:47am:
“LOL!”

-Vietcong




“That’s cute!”

-Taliban



"The Việt Cộng, also known as the National Liberation Front, was a mass political organization in South Vietnam and Cambodia with its own army – the People's Liberation Armed Forces of South Vietnam (PLAF) – that fought against the United States and South Vietnamese governments during the Vietnam War, eventually emerging on the winning side. It had both guerrilla and regular army units, as well as a network of cadres who organized peasants in the territory it controlled. Many soldiers were recruited in South Vietnam, but others were attached to the People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN), the regular North Vietnamese army."








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