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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Gross Income inequality in the greatest nation on earth (Read 1,277 times)
Seawolf
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Re: Income inequality in the greatest nation on earth
Reply #100 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:13pm
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Ulysses wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:13pm:
Well, why don't we just bring back slavery and be over and done with it?

You know how silly those remarks make you look?
  

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Jasmine
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Re: Income inequality in the greatest nation on earth
Reply #101 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:16pm
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Ulysses wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:13pm:
Well, why don't we just bring back slavery and be over and done with it?

Fine with me. I think you'd be a horrible slave, though. You're old and broken down.
  


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Ulysses
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Re: Income inequality in the greatest nation on earth
Reply #102 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:23pm
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Jasmine wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:16pm:
Fine with me. I think you'd be a horrible slave, though. You're old and broken down.


I think you have, as is your usual state, got things backwards.

You'd be my house slave.

Now, get back to your dusting and STFU.
  

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Seawolf
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Re: Income inequality in the greatest nation on earth
Reply #103 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:24pm
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Ulysses wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:23pm:
I think you have, as is your usual state, got things backwards.

You'd be my house slave.

Now, get back to your dusting and STFU.

You have the biggest crush on Jas.
  

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Gnome De Plume
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Re: Income inequality in the greatest nation on earth
Reply #104 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:26pm
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Seawolf wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:24pm:
You have the biggest crush on Jas.

Grin Grin Grin

Seriously. It's like he's nine years old and doesn't know how to express his feelings for her so he pulls her pigtails.
  

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Ulysses
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Re: Income inequality in the greatest nation on earth
Reply #105 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:27pm
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Pick your favorite outfit, Jas...

  

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Jasmine
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Re: Income inequality in the greatest nation on earth
Reply #106 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:28pm
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Seawolf wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:24pm:
You have the biggest crush on Jas.

He's like a creepy grandpa. But he only gets his jollies when there's a mass shooting.
  


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wyattstorch2004
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Re: Income inequality in the greatest nation on earth
Reply #107 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:43pm
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Ulysses wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 3:15pm:
You are ignoring the fact, first in this thread proffered by Bama, is that CEO's have the power to influence stock prices directly via stock buybacks.


Ignoring?  I addressed it directly my response to Bama.

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I'll go one further: remember that great GOP tax cut of 2017? Well look at what happened. Instead of buying more capital equipment, hiring more employees, giving the employees raises, and basically doing things better, most American corporations appear to have funneled their tax windfall into boosting their stock price via stock buybacks.


A) they can do both.  B) do you have back up for the claim that "most" bought back shares instead of spending internally?

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And who benefits most from that? CEO's whose compensation is directly related to stock price: both to get more compensation out of the boards, but also increasing the value of their non-case compensation in the form of stock options.


So, too, do shareholders (eg, pension funds, retirement accounts, traders, etc.) and the businesses in which those shareholders invest the proceeds of their stock sale.

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Don't forget that in the 90's Congress passed legislation that allowed corporations to write off increased executive compensation IF their performance merited it. Well, guess what, the easiest (but not more accurate) way to gauge company performance is stock price. Can you see how this is a major boondoggle?



A major boondoggle?  To let companies expense (when you say write-off, that is really what is happening, they are expensing the cost of compensation) things that are expenses?  If tax is supposed to be on income, then the revenue is supposed to be netted down via expensing.  You act as if it is some big break to allow a company to take an expense for money they spent that lowered net income.  For most people that is a big "duh, of course that makes sense".

Ulysses wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 3:19pm:
There are a variety of different stats out there, using different samples. So are you really going to quibble about 475x vs 365x when compensation for American CEO's far outstrips European CEO's with regard to the CEO/Average worker pay ratio?

But go ahead and nit pick. Enjoy your relative poverty while you're at it.



A 30% difference is not exactly nit-picking.  And you still haven't supported your claim that CEOs earn that much more.  You have supported a claim that the CEOs of the very largest companies do, but that is a much less impactful claim.

forgotten centrist wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 5:14pm:
I haven't read the full thread, but the issues are simple, relevant, and important to the success or failure of our little experiment in democracy.

First, are US CEOs that much more productive than the average worker?  If, say, an average middle-manager were put in a CEO role, would he be 475 times worse at his job?


If her were in the CEO role, he would be earning the CEO pay.  So that is a weird question.  And a middle manager is probably paid more than an average worker at a lot of these companies.

Quote:
  Could, say, a committee of 10 such middle-managers get the same results, at a fraction of what one CEO costs?


If this was likely, why would all these profit hungry, selfish, share price driven businesses not be doing this?

Quote:
  Could the CEO position be open to a competing candidate who would get the same results for half the pay?


If there was an equally qualified candidate available for half the pay, why on earth do you think these money hungry companies would jump at the opportunity?  You act like there isn't a market for executives.  There are entire businesses dedicated to consulting on executive compensation.

Quote:
And how is CEO pay determined?  Is it truly reflective of a competitive talent market?  Or has that market been captured, and executives support each other by serving on each others boards?  What is the feedback loop that connects CEO pay to performance?


Shareholders.

Quote:
It is very common that CEO pay has no relation to performance.  CEOs are hired and compensated in an opaque market, with hidden information.


So hidden, that we seem to know exactly how much they make in order to formulate these statistics at hand.

Quote:
Their earnings are based more on their networking skills than on performance.


Do you have support for this?

Quote:
The problem isn't so much that CEOs are siphoning too much money -- it's that we aren't getting the best CEOs.  Or rather, we are hiring the CEOs who are best at getting hired and siphoning money, rather than CEOs who are best at running companies.


Based on what?

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Fixing this would be a matter of opening up corporate governance, but the resistance would be frightful and likely violent.


Opening up how?  By force?  By government manipulation rather than shareholder wishes?

No thanks.
  
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Re: Income inequality in the greatest nation on earth
Reply #108 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:51pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 4:58pm:
A small part of the answer is because income equality is stupid and a terrible idea.


You do understand there is a whole myriad of choices between, "The working class must be slave labor!", and, "Everybody has to make the same size paycheck, regardless of what they do, down to the penny.".

You understand this....right?
  

Wally Wants A Wall wrote on Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:36pm:
In 2020, when President Trump is reelected and we retake the House and gain a fillabuster proof majority in the Senate, then you can blame President Trump and the Republicans for this continuing mess in Washington.


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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Income inequality in the greatest nation on earth
Reply #109 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 7:48pm
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Buddy_Love wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:51pm:
You do understand there is a whole myriad of choices between, "The working class must be slave labor!", and, "Everybody has to make the same size paycheck, regardless of what they do, down to the penny.".

You understand this....right?

Sure. And nothing I wrote would indicate I do not.
  

Buddy_Love wrote on Jul 16th, 2019 at 5:17pm:
I'm fine where I am. I love America. However, you don't like America, so it's you that should leave.


Ulysses wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 10:00pm:
I dare you to say that to Cuomo's face.
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