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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ‘Using the Lord’s name in vain’: Evangelicals chafe at Trump’s blasphemy (Read 564 times)
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Re: ‘Using the Lord’s name in vain’: Evangelicals chafe at Trump’s blasphemy
Reply #20 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 4:54pm
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Seawolf wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 4:52pm:
I initially voted for Clinton.  I also was not a Christian then.


Fine.

But many, many Christians publicly berated him for his behavior and few do so to Trump.

To me, this says those Christians put their party above their faith.
  

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Re: ‘Using the Lord’s name in vain’: Evangelicals chafe at Trump’s blasphemy
Reply #21 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 5:20pm
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Maestro wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 4:54pm:
Fine.

But many, many Christians publicly berated him for his behavior and few do so to Trump.

To me, this says those Christians put their party above their faith.

Seawolf and I were having a very similar conversation about politics being put above Christian faith, or Christian faith being beholden to political expediency just this morning, as he was doing it in a different thread.

Like many things that have changed due to Trump, any attempt by ANY group to claim some kind of moral high ground based on behavior will literally be DOA. By allowing Trump a free pass after those years of righteous indignation with respect to Clinton, that lane of attack will be closed for a long, long time. Who knows. Maybe it is for the best. Often the people who complain the loudest are the most disingenuous.
  

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Re: ‘Using the Lord’s name in vain’: Evangelicals chafe at Trump’s blasphemy
Reply #22 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 5:31pm
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Vypr wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 5:20pm:
Seawolf and I were having a very similar conversation about politics being put above Christian faith, or Christian faith being beholden to political expediency just this morning, as he was doing it in a different thread.

Like many things that have changed due to Trump, any attempt by ANY group to claim some kind of moral high ground based on behavior will literally be DOA. By allowing Trump a free pass after those years of righteous indignation with respect to Clinton, that lane of attack will be closed for a long, long time. Who knows. Maybe it is for the best. Often the people who complain the loudest are the most disingenuous.


Perhaps. But I would point out that personal behavior was considered by many on the other side of the aisle to be off-limits until Trump became elected. Suddenly it was all well and good to criticize his dalliances with porn stars, cheating on his wife, making crude comments, etc. They do so under the guise of "pointing out hypocrisy" of course, but it all amounts to the same thing. When my guy does it I'll defend him, when the other guy does, I'll find a way to criticize it.

However, I believe Christians should hold themselves to a higher standard because we claim that nothing should come before out faith. Other people make no such promise, so if political expedience takes precedence over consistency, then so be it.

From my point of view, Trump's personal behavior wouldn't bother me so much if he didn't claim to be a Christian. I don't expect non-Christians to act like Christians. Part of our faith is that Christ brings about change in people's lives. It's a part of our faith that people can't live like Christians without his help. What am I supposed to expect non-Christians to do?

But Trump exhibits none of the qualities of the Christian man. He isn't just merely "imperfect." He is a petty, vengeful, carnal, dishonest, prideful, abrasive man. But he claims the Bible is his favorite book and that he is a Christian.

It isn't and he isn't. And we Christians should be repelled by him saying otherwise, not tolerant.

  

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Re: ‘Using the Lord’s name in vain’: Evangelicals chafe at Trump’s blasphemy
Reply #23 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 5:37pm
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Fiddler wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 2:22pm:
Theism is a belief in Gods .. Religion requires a deity.  Atheism is the lack of belief in gods. There is no god.


Atheism does have a "deity"...theirs is the moronic worship of self as god.

Fiddler wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 2:22pm:
Religion requires a code of doctrine..   Atheism has no code of doctrine.


OF course they do.  Immorality, the jealousy/hatred of Christians and narcissism are central tenets of the atheist dogma.

Fiddler wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 2:22pm:
Religion has ordained ministers.  Atheism has no ministers of any kind.


Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris are/were the apostles, deacons and elders of the Church of Stupid Godless Lemmings known as atheists. Darwin was their Pope.

Fiddler wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 2:22pm:
There is no Atheist literature.. no rituals  .. no places of worship .. .


Literature: See the deacons list above.  There have been a plethora of atheist philosophers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheist_philosophers

Rituals: Atheists have quite a few.  A disgusting full time love of self, mindlessly following every perverted cultural fad that comes along (atheists have no fixed moral standards, after all), their rabid effort to ban anything related to Christianity and their hypocritical ridicule of all of the decent, normal people that are smart enough not to be atheists.

Places of worship: Since these people worship themselves, home is their church.  Their worthless "god" is no farther away than the nearest mirror.

Fiddler wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 2:22pm:
It takes the unequaled capacity for self-delusion of religious extremists to imagine Atheism to be a religion.Will you continue to lie about this.. Yes..  Will I continue to mock you about your lying. ..  You bet'cha ..


Zealots always deny that they are zealots. The courts disagree, however.

Quote:
A federal court, in an effort to help atheists, ruled in 2005 that atheism is a form of religion that deserves the same protections as beliefs more commonly recognized as religion (Kaufman v. McCaughtry). The Supreme Court of the United States has treated secular humanism as a religion, granting the Fellowship of Humanity religious tax exemption because it's philosophy is analogous to religion (Torcaso v. Watkins).


https://debunkingatheists.blogspot.com/2008/07/atheism-is-religion.html

https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_is_a_religion




  

At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats. P.J. ORourke
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Re: ‘Using the Lord’s name in vain’: Evangelicals chafe at Trump’s blasphemy
Reply #24 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 5:47pm
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Maestro wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 4:54pm:
Fine.

But many, many Christians publicly berated him for his behavior and few do so to Trump.

To me, this says those Christians put their party above their faith.
Well, I have Christian brothers and sisters on both sides of the political spectrum.  It is a fallacy that only conservatives are Christians in the real world.
  

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: ‘Using the Lord’s name in vain’: Evangelicals chafe at Trump’s blasphemy
Reply #25 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 5:51pm
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Maestro wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 5:31pm:
Perhaps. But I would point out that personal behavior was considered by many on the other side of the aisle to be off-limits until Trump became elected. Suddenly it was all well and good to criticize his dalliances with porn stars, cheating on his wife, making crude comments, etc. They do so under the guise of "pointing out hypocrisy" of course, but it all amounts to the same thing. When my guy does it I'll defend him, when the other guy does, I'll find a way to criticize it.

However, I believe Christians should hold themselves to a higher standard because we claim that nothing should come before out faith. Other people make no such promise, so if political expedience takes precedence over consistency, then so be it.

From my point of view, Trump's personal behavior wouldn't bother me so much if he didn't claim to be a Christian. I don't expect non-Christians to act like Christians. Part of our faith is that Christ brings about change in people's lives. It's a part of our faith that people can't live like Christians without his help. What am I supposed to expect non-Christians to do?

But Trump exhibits none of the qualities of the Christian man. He isn't just merely "imperfect." He is a petty, vengeful, carnal, dishonest, prideful, abrasive man. But he claims the Bible is his favorite book and that he is a Christian.

It isn't and he isn't. And we Christians should be repelled by him saying otherwise, not tolerant.


Never heard he was a Christian, heard his claims about his bibles which I thought was humorous.  No one is going to hell or is a bad Christian despite who they vote for.  If you can not resolve the fact that you live in a world of sin then no one qualifies as President.  God has used good and bad leaders to advance his cause.  The Bible is loaded with examples.  I make my choice based on what is best for our nation and sometimes, as we become more and more godless, the least godless is our only choice.  After all, where is your kingdom Maestro?  That answers where all of our priorities lay.  I look forward to the day when God will rule over all who have chosen his son as their Savior.  That will be an exciting moment in our lives.  Not so much here regarding the world.
  

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: ‘Using the Lord’s name in vain’: Evangelicals chafe at Trump’s blasphemy
Reply #26 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 6:02pm
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Maestro wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 4:33pm:
The problem is that some of my fellow Christians put up with (or even worse, excuse) behavior that they would vocally and publicly criticize as immoral if a Democrat were doing it.

This does more damage to the church in the eyes of the non-believer than anything any Democrat could ever do.

I agree with you on both counts. What's really appalling to me is that there are TV evangelists - specifically, Jim Bakker - who are openly defending everything Trump does. My suspicion is that they are doing this purely for financial gain by catering to Christians who blindly support Trump.

I voted for Trump knowing that he is not a Christian. I voted for him because the last thing I wanted was to see Hillary Clinton as our nation's president. I have no regrets.
  


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Re: ‘Using the Lord’s name in vain’: Evangelicals chafe at Trump’s blasphemy
Reply #27 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 6:18pm
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Vypr wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 5:20pm:
Seawolf and I were having a very similar conversation about politics being put above Christian faith, or Christian faith being beholden to political expediency just this morning, as he was doing it in a different thread.

Like many things that have changed due to Trump, any attempt by ANY group to claim some kind of moral high ground based on behavior will literally be DOA. By allowing Trump a free pass after those years of righteous indignation with respect to Clinton, that lane of attack will be closed for a long, long time. Who knows. Maybe it is for the best. Often the people who complain the loudest are the most disingenuous.

I believe that shaming people to vote your candidate will never work.  You want more votes, move towards the middle or accept that you will lose the elections over the party's desire for Socialism.  Aside from that I vote based on what is best for our nation and our Constitution.  I am under no delusion about the moral swamp we as a nation are in for the godless approach we have chosen.  It is not going to get better.
  

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: ‘Using the Lord’s name in vain’: Evangelicals chafe at Trump’s blasphemy
Reply #28 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 6:20pm
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Jasmine wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 6:02pm:
I agree with you on both counts. What's really appalling to me is that there are TV evangelists - specifically, Jim Bakker - who are openly defending everything Trump does. My suspicion is that they are doing this purely for financial gain by catering to Christians who blindly support Trump.

I voted for Trump knowing that he is not a Christian. I voted for him because the last thing I wanted was to see Hillary Clinton as our nation's president. I have no regrets.
Exactly the same reason I voted for Trump.  To suggest Hillary was a better choice is laughable.
  

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: ‘Using the Lord’s name in vain’: Evangelicals chafe at Trump’s blasphemy
Reply #29 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 6:22pm
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Seawolf wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 6:18pm:
I believe that shaming people to vote your candidate will never work.  You want more votes, move towards the middle or accept that you will lose the elections over the party's desire for Socialism.  Aside from that I vote based on what is best for our nation and our Constitution.  I am under no delusion about the moral swamp we as a nation are in for the godless approach we have chosen.  It is not going to get better.

And yet Trump is not only clearly godless, but lies about being a Christian and you defend him at every opportunity.
  

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