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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What to do about Afghanistan (Read 433 times)
patrick2
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What to do about Afghanistan
Sep 8th, 2019 at 5:21pm
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[This is not directed at the "Ain't none of our business" crowd.  We've heard your simplistic grasp/solution a number of times, thank you.]

Lots of problems come with trying to graft conventional warfare concepts against nations onto fighting a guerilla war against a stateless military force.  One example is the idea of "winning".  In the case of WW2 with Germany and Japan, "winning" was destroying their governments and military and occupying their country.

In the case of Afghanistan, that is not appropriate or necessary.  What's needed is to prevent an IF takeover of Afghanistan - it's not necessary to "win" in the above sense to do that.  That's what was tried by both the Russians in 1980 and the US now.  Then is the alternative a meat-grinding war that never ends?  Not exactly. 

Remember, the idea is to prevent an IF takeover, not to "win" - two different things.   With limited forces, mostly airmobile infantry, IRBMs like Tomahawk, and fighter and bomber aircraft, the US can disrupt any IF attempt to take over the government.  In this way the costs, casualties, and manpower can be minimized.  What can't be minimized is the length of the "war".  It will go on as long as the IFs want it to.  Lots of things are like that.  How about medical efforts to fight bacteria and viruses?  Will the "war" there ever be "won"?  No. 

Remember the consequences of abandoning Afghanistan - an IF state, a home base where they can comfortably engineer attacks on the west, develop missiles and nukes and germ warfare.
  
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Lomelis
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #1 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 5:56pm
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Talk about simplistic solutions.  Your whole spiel is easily summed up as:

Moar never ending war!
  

Ignorant Blessings from Wads:

Wadsworth wrote on Feb 19th, 2019 at 9:18am:
Regulations are designed to protect the consumer and the worker.  If it doesn’t,it is not a regulation.



"Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.
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Michael and Jello
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #2 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 6:01pm
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Leave
  

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Ulysses
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #3 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 6:37pm
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The OP represents a typically over-simplified viewpoint.

For example, during the 1980's the Reagan admin gave material aid to the mujahadeen fighting Soviet occupation forces. This is turn helped create the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

How the US Helped Create Al Qaeda and ISIS

Quote:
Much like Al Qaeda, the Islamic State (ISIS) is made-in-the-USA, an instrument of terror designed to divide and conquer the oil-rich Middle East and to counter Iran’s growing influence in the region.

The fact that the United States has a long and torrid history of backing terrorist groups will surprise only those who watch the news and ignore history.

The CIA first aligned itself with extremist Islam during the Cold War era. Back then, America saw the world in rather simple terms: on one side, the Soviet Union and Third World nationalism, which America regarded as a Soviet tool; on the other side, Western nations and militant political Islam, which America considered an ally in the struggle against the Soviet Union.

The director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan, General William Odom recently remarked, “by any measure the U.S. has long used terrorism. In 1978-79 the Senate was trying to pass a law against international terrorism – in every version they produced, the lawyers said the U.S. would be in violation.”


In other words, we helped create the Islamic terrorist monster, and it's come back to bite us repeatedly.
  

What is the cost of lies? It's not that we'll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon the hope of truth and content ourselves instead with stories. In these stories it doesn't matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is who is to blame. - V. Legasov
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #4 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 7:32pm
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Michael and Jello wrote on Sep 8th, 2019 at 6:01pm:
Leave

And say sorry.
  

Buddy_Love wrote on Jul 16th, 2019 at 5:17pm:
I'm fine where I am. I love America. However, you don't like America, so it's you that should leave.


Ulysses wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 10:00pm:
I dare you to say that to Cuomo's face.
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Jasmine
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #5 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 7:39pm
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We should leave, but we shouldn’t be brokering any kind of deal with those desert primates.
  


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Ulysses
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #6 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 7:43pm
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Jasmine wrote on Sep 8th, 2019 at 7:39pm:
We should leave, but we shouldn’t be brokering any kind of deal with those desert primates.


Are you saying Ronald Reagan had it all wrong?
  

What is the cost of lies? It's not that we'll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon the hope of truth and content ourselves instead with stories. In these stories it doesn't matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is who is to blame. - V. Legasov
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Jasmine
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #7 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 7:46pm
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Ulysses wrote on Sep 8th, 2019 at 7:43pm:
Are you saying Ronald Reagan had it all wrong?

If he negotiTed with the terrorists then yes he had it wrong.
  


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Ulysses
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #8 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 8:53pm
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Jasmine wrote on Sep 8th, 2019 at 7:46pm:
If he negotiTed with the terrorists then yes he had it wrong.


Are you moving the goalposts?

Why?

Reagan sent arms, intelligence, and other aid to the Mujaheddin, Taliban, and what became Al Qaeda. I suppose in his defense one could say he was trying to defeat the Soviet Union and hastened its demise by helping enemies of the Soviet Union. But in reality the USSR was doomed to failure by the weight of its own incompetence. As a result, Reagan's CIA made terrorists like Al Qaeda stronger and stronger. And despite all the help we gave them, they hated us and staged the 9/11 attacks. And they still hate us and think those attacks are justified.

But Donny was all too willing to make a deal with the Taliban. Meanwhile he's been making trade and diplomatic attacks against Iran, which is one of the Taliban/Al Qaeda/ISIS enemies.

If Osama bin Laden were alive today, would he and Donny be in love?

  

What is the cost of lies? It's not that we'll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon the hope of truth and content ourselves instead with stories. In these stories it doesn't matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is who is to blame. - V. Legasov
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patrick2
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #9 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 9:47pm
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Lomelis wrote on Sep 8th, 2019 at 5:56pm:
Talk about simplistic solutions.  Your whole spiel is easily summed up as:

Moar never ending war!


Come back when you can debate the issue.
  
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