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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What to do about Afghanistan (Read 430 times)
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #20 - Sep 9th, 2019 at 1:36pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Sep 9th, 2019 at 12:51pm:
Exactamundo.  Given that large parts of Pakistan exist outside of govt jurisdiction, we have scoped this conflict poorly.  Militants, training, supplies, cash, etc -- all fuels the front lines in Afghanistan, so we will never resolve a war there without scoping it out.

There is almost no political will to do so, which suggests one of two approaches:
- bag it, get out, and let other regional powers take over


Nonsense.  After kicking out (over a couple centuries) the British, the Russians, and the Americans - who else is going to "take over"?


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- come up with a region-wide peace plan, involving all stakeholders, that overcomes Pakistan's refusal to do anything.


More nonsense.  The IFs aren't interested in peace, but rather war on the "infidels".  The "peace process" with the IFs around Israel has been going on for 70 years - how's THAT working out?
  
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #21 - Sep 9th, 2019 at 1:44pm
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patrick2 wrote on Sep 9th, 2019 at 1:30pm:
Plz recheck the thread title.

"What to do about Afghanistan"

Ok, you do realize that Pakistan, specifically the ISI, funds and supports the Taliban, including the Deobandi madrassas which teach the Taliban's religious ideology. So, if you want to do something about Afghanistan, you need to address Pakistan's role in supporting the Taliban and other Islamist groups within the country.
  
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #22 - Sep 9th, 2019 at 1:45pm
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patrick2 wrote on Sep 9th, 2019 at 1:36pm:
Nonsense.  After kicking out (over a couple centuries) the British, the Russians, and the Americans - who else is going to "take over"?



More nonsense.  The IFs aren't interested in peace, but rather war on the "infidels".  The "peace process" with the IFs around Israel has been going on for 70 years - how's THAT working out?


Pakistan has already taken over.  And with a hostile India looming over them, Pakistan will offer its services and interests to the highest bidder, which won't be us.
  

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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #23 - Sep 9th, 2019 at 1:53pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Sep 9th, 2019 at 1:45pm:
Pakistan has already taken over.  And with a hostile India looming over them, Pakistan will offer its services and interests to the highest bidder, which won't be us.



Nonsense - Pakistan hasn't taken over Afghanistan - they've been fighting al Qaeda and similar groups in their own country for years.  Where do you get this stuff??
  
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #24 - Sep 9th, 2019 at 1:55pm
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Demos wrote on Sep 9th, 2019 at 1:44pm:
"What to do about Afghanistan"

Ok, you do realize that Pakistan, specifically the ISI, funds and supports the Taliban, including the Deobandi madrassas which teach the Taliban's religious ideology. So, if you want to do something about Afghanistan, you need to address Pakistan's role in supporting the Taliban and other Islamist groups within the country.


The Pakistanis, understandably, don't like US air strikes in Pakistan, even though it's against the IFs.  But I believe the IFs wouldn't be able to take over Pakistan.  The issue is Afghanistan, which the US can prevent, at reasonable cost, from being taken over by the IFs.
  
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #25 - Sep 9th, 2019 at 2:02pm
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You think I'm talking about Pakistan, the elected body of government.  I'm really talking about the people and tribal identities within Pakistan, that have floated all the insurgencies in Afghanistan for decades.  The elected Paki govt isn't even in control within its own borders, let alone projecting power over the Afghans.

We can't win this thing without dealing with that.  Well, we can't "win" it in any sense.  But we could transition to some kind of regional stewardship, set up a DMZ, and stop making this all about us.
  

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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #26 - Sep 9th, 2019 at 2:05pm
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The only strategy which has not been tried in Afghanistan is a stand off policy, staging special forces and air strikes from outside of this God Forsaken country and having no troops actually stationed there.  This would require a great deal of CIA involvement, but after the length of time we have been there, I have no doubt they we have a lot of assets in place.  Then again, if we leave, the Taliban will likely behead anyone suspected of having had anything to do with the US and our allies.  They will also very likely massacre tens of thousands of civilians, beginning with women and girls who dared to get an education while we have been there.

Leaving Afghanistan strengthens the argument for developing and deploying tactical nukes to bury the rats in their stinking caves in northern region of  Tora Bora.  If we leave and leave them alive, it's only a matter of time before they hit us again and again and again, here at home.
  

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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #27 - Sep 9th, 2019 at 2:20pm
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patrick2 wrote on Sep 9th, 2019 at 1:55pm:
The Pakistanis, understandably, don't like US air strikes in Pakistan, even though it's against the IFs.  But I believe the IFs wouldn't be able to take over Pakistan. The issue is Afghanistan, which the US can prevent, at reasonable cost, from being taken over by the IFs

It's not about Islamists taking over Pakistan. The issue is Pakistan funding and supporting the Taliban.

Furthermore, if you consider the Taliban to be Islamic fundamentalists who you don't want controlling the country, then you need to do more than airstrikes, because that's honestly not going to cut it .

You need to go after their funding and support.
  
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #28 - Sep 9th, 2019 at 2:21pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Sep 9th, 2019 at 2:02pm:
You think I'm talking about Pakistan, the elected body of government... The elected Paki govt isn't even in control within its own borders, let alone projecting power over the Afghans.

The government has actually long supported the Taliban in various ways.
  
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Re: What to do about Afghanistan
Reply #29 - Sep 9th, 2019 at 3:17pm
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Demos wrote on Sep 9th, 2019 at 2:20pm:
It's not about Islamists taking over Pakistan. The issue is Pakistan funding and supporting the Taliban.

Furthermore, if you consider the Taliban to be Islamic fundamentalists who you don't want controlling the country, then you need to do more than airstrikes, because that's honestly not going to cut it .

You need to go after their funding and support.


OK, fine.  The point is that large ground forces and a "win the war" concept aren't needed.   Also, I didn't say just airstrikes, but just that might be fine too.  How are you going too run a country if every half hour a jet pops up and strafes everything?  You aren't.  It's turning the guerilla concept back on the guerillas.  The guerilla concept:  "We can never beat the enemy in a pitched battle, but we can prevent him from 'winning'."  Likewise, I don't call on utterly defeating the IFs, but rather merely preventing them from taking over and running a terrorist state, where they can make their nukes missiles, and germ warfare in peace.
  
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