Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment! Algorithm free!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Rasmussen Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea. (Read 325 times)
Freon_Bale
LNF Representative3
LNF Bunker
***
Offline

Courage is fearing something,
then doing it anyway

Posts: 3,634
Joined: Feb 16th, 2017
Re: I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.
Reply #10 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:04pm
Print Post  
crepe05 wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 11:51am:
However, it's a good idea to practice shooting the weapon so that you have a good chance of shooting the bad guy.  Do you consider that a hobby?   I call it practice.  Does the fact that I enjoy the practice make a difference in your mind?


Practice does not make it a hobby. I fully endorse practice.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
crepe05
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 28,934
Location: Louisiana
Joined: Feb 25th, 2012
Gender: Female
Re: I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.
Reply #11 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:07pm
Print Post  
Freon_Bale wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:04pm:
Practice does not make it a hobby. I fully endorse practice.


We agree.   Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Freon_Bale
LNF Representative3
LNF Bunker
***
Offline

Courage is fearing something,
then doing it anyway

Posts: 3,634
Joined: Feb 16th, 2017
Re: I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.
Reply #12 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:22pm
Print Post  
crepe05 wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:07pm:
We agree.   Smiley


If you think about it, the only voices we hear in this debate are the ones that say, 'all guns, no restrictions', and the ones that say, 'no guns, full restrictions'.

I think these are the most passionate voices, but not the majority. In Cali, I know many Dems with guns. Heck, I live in the most densely populated military personnel city in the country. There are dozens of ranges and shops around me, and it's really not a big deal. Of my friends, family and coworkers, maybe 100 people or so, I can't think of one who advocates for no guns at all, yet from what I hear in here, all Californian's want guns abolished. That's just not true.

What we want is to feel safe, knowing that the rules around guns factor in our point of view, while acknowledging yours. I want to know that if you are firing a gun, you are certified on it and have a license to use it that factors in your mental health. If you feel you need a gun totally outside what is necessary for defense and hunting, than you get certified in it, and a special license for it. You get the gun you want, I get to feel safe knowing you are capable and appropriate to be using it.

If you find my perspective on this horrendously outlandish, then honestly, you are doomed. I am describing a middle position that allows you to keep guns, instead of what you fear most, which is the position to eliminate them. If you don't compromise with moderates like myself, I would be willing to bet you get far less gun ownership in the long run.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TowardLiberty
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

anti-state, anti-war and
pro-market

Posts: 37,476
Location: Houston
Joined: Apr 6th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.
Reply #13 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:50pm
Print Post  
Freon_Bale wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 11:12am:
My question is simple in all this. Can you be for the 2nd amendment, and NOT be a gun lover. Because that is my position. I have no problem with people owning guns, as long as they use them exclusively for defense or hunting. Using them as a hobby is wrong to me, no different than owning a flamethrower or LAW Rocket.

Guns should not be fun. Guns are not toys. They are for killing, and nothing else.

What is the logic you are working from to get to the conclusion that people should not use guns for anything other than killing?

What is the argument for the normative position you are taking here? To me it seems entirely arbitrary.

"People should not do stuff in a way that displeases me" is essentially what I am getting from this post.

It's one thing to say such a thing if you can point to someone being harmed by a given act. "People should not steal because it harms others" is a defensible position. "People should not have fun with X because I say" is not.
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:59pm by TowardLiberty »  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner

"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TowardLiberty
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

anti-state, anti-war and
pro-market

Posts: 37,476
Location: Houston
Joined: Apr 6th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.
Reply #14 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:52pm
Print Post  
Freon_Bale wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:04pm:
Practice does not make it a hobby. I fully endorse practice.

Cool. Then everyone should call their hobby, "practice." Problem solved.
  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner

"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TowardLiberty
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

anti-state, anti-war and
pro-market

Posts: 37,476
Location: Houston
Joined: Apr 6th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.
Reply #15 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:57pm
Print Post  
Freon_Bale wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:22pm:
If you find my perspective on this horrendously outlandish, then honestly, you are doomed. I am describing a middle position that allows you to keep guns, instead of what you fear most, which is the position to eliminate them. If you don't compromise with moderates like myself, I would be willing to bet you get far less gun ownership in the long run.

Compromise is how law is made. Otherwise we're left with executive orders that can easily be undone.

For second amendment folks, there is nothing to be gained and everything to be lost in that process.

If someone doesn't want any changes to how arms are regulated, the best path forward is to oppose everything your side wants and make you earn every inch of progress on your own, unilaterally.
  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner

"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Freon_Bale
LNF Representative3
LNF Bunker
***
Offline

Courage is fearing something,
then doing it anyway

Posts: 3,634
Joined: Feb 16th, 2017
Re: I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.
Reply #16 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 1:01pm
Print Post  
TowardLiberty wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:50pm:
What is the reasoning you are working from to get to the conclusion that people should not use guns for anything other than killing?

What is the argument for the normative position you are taking here? To me it seems entirely arbitrary.

"People should not do stuff in a way that displeases me" is essentially what I am getting from this post.

It's one thing to say such a thing if you can point to someone being harmed by a given act. "People should not steal because it harms others" is a defensible position. "People should not have fun with X because I say" is not.


The proliferation of guns in this country is a function of people viewing them as a hobby. States with higher gun/people ratios also have higher gun deaths.

By taking a position of endorsing the 2nd amendment, but also restricting it to purely killing functionality, we can start to modify our general laissez faire attitude towards what most Americans see as a growing problem.

But there is a more pragmatic point I am making. Whether you agree with me or not, whether there are good reasons or not, the fact is that more people want gun restriction/abolition then then those who do not. If you accept this basic premise, then in time, those in the majority will advocate and succeed at so weakening the 2nd amendment, that it will be effectively as if guns were banned.

To prevent this, those who are on the gun-loving side need to find a middle ground with the majority that is stable, in terms of policy, or they will abdicate any part of what future gun policy looks like. And that window to be part of making these decisions is closing fast, especially with Trump polarizing the country so strongly.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 28,817
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.
Reply #17 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 1:02pm
Print Post  
Freon_Bale wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 11:12am:
I have no issues with the NRA, so I cannot speak for that group you feel is threatening you.

My question is simple in all this. Can you be for the 2nd amendment, and NOT be a gun lover. Because that is my position. I have no problem with people owning guns, as long as they use them exclusively for defense or hunting. Using them as a hobby is wrong to me, no different than owning a flamethrower or LAW Rocket.

Guns should not be fun. Guns are not toys. They are for killing, and nothing else.

The right to freely assemble is for everyone in this country.  As far as guns for hobby, why not?  It is not my hobby but having lived in a state where nearly everyone had a shotgun or rifle hanging up in their trucks was the norm back in the day.  People respected it for what it is but frequent use allows you to be proficient when and if you ever have to use it.  The odds of having to use your weapon for self-defense is rare.  Having said that, nothing is worse then a life and death issue and you have no means of protecting your life or that of your family.
  

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 28,817
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.
Reply #18 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 1:07pm
Print Post  
Freon_Bale wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 1:01pm:
The proliferation of guns in this country is a function of people viewing them as a hobby. States with higher gun/people ratios also have higher gun deaths.

By taking a position of endorsing the 2nd amendment, but also restricting it to purely killing functionality, we can start to modify our general laissez faire attitude towards what most Americans see as a growing problem.

But there is a more pragmatic point I am making. Whether you agree with me or not, whether there are good reasons or not, the fact is that more people want gun restriction/abolition then then those who do not. If you accept this basic premise, then in time, those in the majority will advocate and succeed at so weakening the 2nd amendment, that it will be effectively as if guns were banned.

To prevent this, those who are on the gun-loving side need to find a middle ground with the majority that is stable, in terms of policy, or they will abdicate any part of what future gun policy looks like. And that window to be part of making these decisions is closing fast, especially with Trump polarizing the country so strongly.

That is a horrible way to look at this!  And should your side succeed, there will be no stopping it at the second amendment either.  Folks would LOVE to abolish free speech, religion, business, private property and the list goes on and on.  Me having a gun does not in any way impede your freedoms.  Me having free speech, or my faith does not impede or restrain your freedoms.  These rights our founders placed are, as they stated, God given rights that no man has or should have over a free people.  If man can can claim to own those rights, man can refuse those rights to others as history demonstrates.

Let me also say that I would say there are more gun owners then those who would advocate a Marxist approach of governing.  Good luck thinking you will ever be successful in stripping guns from this nation.  Most everyone I know will never abide by any law that would attempt to take our weapons or even force us to register.  We will never comply and you will never be able to enforce this on the majority of the people here.  Our freedoms are very ingrained in our DNA.  I did not do 20 years protecting our freedoms to now surrender those freedoms I have invested in.  Not going to happen, you can take that to the bank.  You can let loose with the name calling but that has about as much impact on my views as a gnat on the ass end of a rhino.
  

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
petep
Hardhat
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 13,940
Location: Maine
Joined: Mar 4th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.
Reply #19 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 1:15pm
Print Post  
Freon_Bale wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 1:01pm:
The proliferation of guns in this country is a function of people viewing them as a hobby. States with higher gun/people ratios also have higher gun deaths.

By taking a position of endorsing the 2nd amendment, but also restricting it to purely killing functionality, we can start to modify our general laissez faire attitude towards what most Americans see as a growing problem.

But there is a more pragmatic point I am making. Whether you agree with me or not, whether there are good reasons or not, the fact is that more people want gun restriction/abolition then then those who do not. If you accept this basic premise, then in time, those in the majority will advocate and succeed at so weakening the 2nd amendment, that it will be effectively as if guns were banned.

To prevent this, those who are on the gun-loving side need to find a middle ground with the majority that is stable, in terms of policy, or they will abdicate any part of what future gun policy looks like. And that window to be part of making these decisions is closing fast, especially with Trump polarizing the country so strongly.


I wonder about that...your claim that states with higher guns/people ratios have higher gun deaths...

its seems like another one of those fake news stats...

here in maine, VT, NH it is common for one household to have 3-10+ firearms...

To get a real assessment, you'd need to look at where violent crime happens - which is easy, the FBI publishes crime by county...and then you can drill by zip...net out suicides and almost all violent crime with guns happens in tiny geographies in the states...

then you'd have to net out illegally owned/used guns...

the real stat is what do legal gun owners do with legally owned guns...

its hardly fair to penalize all illinois gun owners (and there are many), because the gang bangers in south chicago account for most of the gun related violent crime in the state.

but since you made the claim, please post your source data...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › I just had an idea. Yep, a real idea.

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
A1 News Page
David Limbaugh
Political Frog
Conservatives Directory
President Trump Approval Poll
Presidential Party Election Poll
News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules