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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Let's talk impeachable offenses (Read 195 times)
Queshank
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Re: Let's talk impeachable offenses
Reply #10 - Oct 8th, 2019 at 11:53pm
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Ulysses wrote on Oct 8th, 2019 at 5:45pm:
Both Bushes were doing the oligarchy's bidding with regard to Iraq.

Obama? Not so much. I don't regard collateral damage as the same as out and out lying about WMD's and incubator babies. Maybe you do, that's your right.


Ulyssese.

When Bush the Younger left office we were "at war" in 4 countries around the world.

When Obama left office we were "at war" in 7 countries around the world.

What are you even talking about?

You just didn't notice all this because people started getting "woke" when Obama was president.  Including and especially some of our major news outlets.  And criticizing anything Obama did was a minefield filled with charges of "you're a racist!"

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Meanwhile your man Donny wants to execute the whistleblower. How does that fit into your Nirvana?


Well, Ulyssese.  Sadly ... and I mean this seriously ... it reminds me of all the rank and file Democrats I knew who thought Edward Snowden should have been executed for treason.  You can argue that it's worse because Trump is president.  But ... Trump is a right winger.  I expect that from a right winger.  Rhetoric of this type from a left winger because it was *their* guy in office being ratted out is far more disturbing to me.

Queshank
  

The question isn't whether or not we're descended from monkeys.  The question is, when are we going to stop descending?
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Freon_Bale
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Re: Let's talk impeachable offenses
Reply #11 - Oct 8th, 2019 at 11:58pm
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Mojo-Jojo wrote on Oct 8th, 2019 at 5:10pm:
Invading a nation over non-existent WMDs is high on my list.


Yeah, baby Bush should have been held accountable.
  
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Freon_Bale
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Re: Let's talk impeachable offenses
Reply #12 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 12:00am
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Queshank wrote on Oct 8th, 2019 at 1:16pm:
See, it's different for everyone.

That's the problem people on the left refuse to acknowledge.

For example:

I voted for Obama in 2008.  Not only did I vote for him, but I attended my first presidential campaign speech in my hometown to see Obama. 

I voted for him again in 2012.

I don't regret either vote.  He was better than the alternatives.  By miles in 2008, and at least by yards in 2012.

But I think he should have been impeached for using the military's targetted assassination drone program to assassinate American citizens for excercising their freedom of speech.

That's my impeachment trigger.  What's yours?

Queshank


My trigger is when they get caught committing a crime.

It has nothing to do with partisanship, I would impeach the left as fast as the right. Clinton was caught in a crime, and he was impeached. Fine by me.

Trump has committed many crimes, and keeps dodging justice. This time, there is no dodge. He committed a crime, was caught, and now he is getting impeached.
  
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Queshank
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Re: Let's talk impeachable offenses
Reply #13 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 12:25am
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 8th, 2019 at 7:29pm:
Well, since it was not intentional, it is silly to say Obama should have been impeached


You glossed over this part Wadsworth:

On Tuesday, the ACLU and the Center for Constitutional Rights filed a lawsuit in U.S court against CIA and military officials over the deaths of Abdulrahman and the two other American citizens killed with drones–including his father, the controversial Anwar Al-Aulaqi–because:

“These killings, undertaken without due process, in circumstances where lethal force was not a last resort to address a specific, concrete and imminent threat, and where the government failed to take required measures to protect bystanders, rises to a violation of the most elementary constitutional right afforded to all U.S. citizens – deprivation of life without due process of law.”


You know.  The part about how the American citizens were the targets for assassination.

I don't know why you guys have so much trouble understanding how Trumplicans can "ignore" so much about Trump.  You guys demonstrate the process repeatedly.  You focus on the American citizens killed as collateral damage and somehow rationalize it as okay.

Queshank
  

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Re: Let's talk impeachable offenses
Reply #14 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 12:29am
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Freon_Bale wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 12:00am:
My trigger is when they get caught committing a crime.

It has nothing to do with partisanship, I would impeach the left as fast as the right. Clinton was caught in a crime, and he was impeached. Fine by me.

Trump has committed many crimes, and keeps dodging justice. This time, there is no dodge. He committed a crime, was caught, and now he is getting impeached.


I don't see a reason for Clinton's impeachment.  The "crimes" he supposedly committed involved attempts to fight off the weaponized use of the legal system.  As soon as someone starts weaponizing the legal system, all bets are off as far as I'm concerned.  Especially at the highest levels of human interaction and power.  It's not corruption.  It's not illegal.  It's not evil.  It's called being human.

And yeah that applies to Trump's supposed "obstruction of justice" as much as it does Clinton's. 

Humans gonna human.  It's kind of the one guaranteed area of bipartisanship.

Queshank
  

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Re: Let's talk impeachable offenses
Reply #15 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 9:33am
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Queshank wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 12:29am:
I don't see a reason for Clinton's impeachment.  The "crimes" he supposedly committed involved attempts to fight off the weaponized use of the legal system.  As soon as someone starts weaponizing the legal system, all bets are off as far as I'm concerned.  Especially at the highest levels of human interaction and power.  It's not corruption.  It's not illegal.  It's not evil.  It's called being human.

And yeah that applies to Trump's supposed "obstruction of justice" as much as it does Clinton's. 

Humans gonna human.  It's kind of the one guaranteed area of bipartisanship.

Queshank


To err is to be human, eh?

I think what makes America so unique is that we hold our government and its people accountable. We don't want just anyone getting into our highest offices, we want those who genuinely believe in the principles of our system.

Clinton did. Obama did. But Trump? He is an exploiter for personal gain. He must be held accountable. If suddenly today, he started behaving like someone who respected our government, so too, would the attitudes towards him change. But he does not, and frankly, that is why he was elected. Trump is a symptom of his base not understanding what it means to be American.
  
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Re: Let's talk impeachable offenses
Reply #16 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 9:41am
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I prefer to listen to those who have been through it, such as "War is nothing but a Racket"; "The first casualty of war, is the Truth."  Those who have been there, seen it, and done that.

I read "Iraq Year Zero" and it was was very eye opening.  We act no differently than all others before us, we just call it by a different name, but the results are the same.
  

My political goal is the pursuit of personal liberty & freedom for ALL, not be governed by fools & crooks who pick our pockets then claim its for "our benefit"---it’s a scam. When a politician votes it’s to take away another freedom; tax the people to fatten another's pocket; & grant themselves unlimited powers embodied by a large police & military force at their beck and call if anyone rebels
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Re: Let's talk impeachable offenses
Reply #17 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 10:13am
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Queshank wrote on Oct 8th, 2019 at 11:53pm:
Ulyssese.

When Bush the Younger left office we were "at war" in 4 countries around the world.

When Obama left office we were "at war" in 7 countries around the world.

What are you even talking about?

You just didn't notice all this because people started getting "woke" when Obama was president.  Including and especially some of our major news outlets.  And criticizing anything Obama did was a minefield filled with charges of "you're a racist!"


Well, Ulyssese.  Sadly ... and I mean this seriously ... it reminds me of all the rank and file Democrats I knew who thought Edward Snowden should have been executed for treason.  You can argue that it's worse because Trump is president.  But ... Trump is a right winger.  I expect that from a right winger.  Rhetoric of this type from a left winger because it was *their* guy in office being ratted out is far more disturbing to me.

Queshank


Quecrank...

So it's OK for Trump to be a total wannabe murderous asshole because, well, that's what right wingers do?

Really?

Somebody slip something a bit too strong in your bong this morning? Like Adderall?
  

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Re: Let's talk impeachable offenses
Reply #18 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 10:39am
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Freon_Bale wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 12:00am:
My trigger is when they get caught committing a crime.

It has nothing to do with partisanship, I would impeach the left as fast as the right. Clinton was caught in a crime, and he was impeached. Fine by me.

Trump has committed many crimes, and keeps dodging justice. This time, there is no dodge. He committed a crime, was caught, and now he is getting impeached.


No crime was committed. Biden doesn't get a pass on a corruption investigation simply because he's running for president.  And the president doesn't abdicate his treaty obligations simply because the subject of investigation is a political rival.

And the bar for impeachment should be extremely high.  This was not intended to be a mechanism for revenge against a political opponent.

Clinton lied under oath to a federal grand jury to protect his political career and legacy. That was and is a crime, but I agree with Q that even that was questionable as a basis for impeachment.
  

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Re: Let's talk impeachable offenses
Reply #19 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 10:56am
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PaleoCon wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 10:39am:
No crime was committed. Biden doesn't get a pass on a corruption investigation simply because he's running for president.  And the president doesn't abdicate his treaty obligations simply because the subject of investigation is a political rival.

And the bar for impeachment should be extremely high.  This was not intended to be a mechanism for revenge against a political opponent.

Clinton lied under oath to a federal grand jury to protect his political career and legacy. That was and is a crime, but I agree with Q that even that was questionable as a basis for impeachment.


Almost everything you just wrote is unsubstantiated opinion.

You don't KNOW that Trump didn't commit a crime.

You don't KNOW if Biden did commit a crime.

You don't KNOW that this impeachment is for revenge.

Mueller already showed that Trump is either stupid or corrupt, and Trump claims he is a genius, so Congress is taking him at his word, and proceeding as if he is corrupt. There is massive circumstantial evidence to support investigating him, and NO ONE is above the law. Not Trump. Not Biden. Not Clinton.

YOU may feel that the impeachment bar should be so high, that it is never used, but thankfully, you are just one American, and the bulk of us, in all the polls I've seen, disagree with you.
  
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