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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Permanent State and the Intelligence Community are Dangerous (Read 789 times)
Lane65
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Re: The Permanent State and the Intelligence Community are Dangerous
Reply #20 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 8:02am
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Hair Looms From The Attic wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 3:29am:
The thing about Trump is he emerged as a total outsider. most other people running for the presidency is deep embedded in the status quo. He said he didn't want to do things like they've been done for decades. He has but he said he wouldn't and he pokes a finger in the government daily. They just can't have that. He's got to go and that Russian spy named Tulsi needs to be dealt with.

We need never ending wars to fund never ending bank accounts.

It's all about money.


Not true.  Trump came into our government with the same *mentality* that he has operated from when he first started working for his father's businesses.  He has the CEO mentality that he can do what he wants to achieve the objective *he* [key word] wants to achieve and no one is going to stop him or get in his way, including pesky laws. 

In his narcissistic mind, those are just barriers he's been going around for most of his life, with a bunch of lawyers doing his 'dirty work' to achieve his personal goals.  Instead of accepting those laws are the very barriers he, as the President of the US is in charge of "enforcing" he intentionally, willfully, and knowingly went around them, again, using another lawyer (Guiliani) as they are just dispensable people to him---one's he will fire or throw under the bus in a heartbeat to isolate or remove himself as much as possible from his own schemes.



  

My political goal is the pursuit of personal liberty & freedom for ALL, not be governed by fools & crooks who pick our pockets then claim its for "our benefit"---it’s a scam. When a politician votes it’s to take away another freedom; tax the people to fatten another's pocket; & grant themselves unlimited powers embodied by a large police & military force at their beck and call if anyone rebels
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petep
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Re: The Permanent State and the Intelligence Community are Dangerous
Reply #21 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 12:52pm
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Hair Looms From The Attic wrote on Nov 6th, 2019 at 9:55pm:
You have complete confidence in government? Yes or no.


Great and relevant question
  
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Re: The Permanent State and the Intelligence Community are Dangerous
Reply #22 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 12:59pm
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petep wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 12:52pm:
Great and relevant question


If you like wacky and emotional binary questions.. . 

  

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Re: The Permanent State and the Intelligence Community are Dangerous
Reply #23 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 1:02pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Nov 6th, 2019 at 7:39am:
No f***ing military aid should be given to Ukraine, so why would I care if that was held back, especially when compared to what I believe the permanent state is attempting to do here?

With regard to this question, I would say you should care if it was part of an attempt to use public resources for private benefit.

It's not as if this was some principled stance, and the spigot was turned back on after all of this blew up.

It is possible to be concerned about all of these things.
  
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: The Permanent State and the Intelligence Community are Dangerous
Reply #24 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 1:08pm
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To the OP, here's Chuck Schumer shortly after the election saying that if Trump takes on the Inteliigence Community, "they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you."



He says it at 0:52 seconds, if you're impatient.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
We are talking about this government, aren't we?  If we were any other kind of government like China or NK, we would not even be having this discussion because you would not even be allowed to own a gun. 


Vypr wrote on Oct 15th, 2019 at 8:25am:
By all accounts Syria was somewhat calm.
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: The Permanent State and the Intelligence Community are Dangerous
Reply #25 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 1:24pm
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Vypr wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 12:13am:
And we would further assume that the buck stops with the elected officials tasked to put oversight, controls and safeguards in place to make sure that the federal govt acts according to stated policy and expectations.

Here's a fun example of that oversight.

Clapper lied to the Senate Intelligence Committee about mass surveillance of the American people. Straight up lie during some attempts at "oversight."

His punishment? Nothing.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/01/19/james-clappers-perjury-dc-made...

Who controls whom?
  

Wadsworth wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
We are talking about this government, aren't we?  If we were any other kind of government like China or NK, we would not even be having this discussion because you would not even be allowed to own a gun. 


Vypr wrote on Oct 15th, 2019 at 8:25am:
By all accounts Syria was somewhat calm.
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: The Permanent State and the Intelligence Community are Dangerous
Reply #26 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:05pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 1:08pm:
To the OP, here's Chuck Schumer shortly after the election saying that if Trump takes on the Inteliigence Community, "they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you."



He says it at 0:52 seconds, if you're impatient.

I don't think this can be glossed over.

A democratically elected, senior ranking Senator admits on national television that the Permanent State will enact retribution on those elected to provide "oversight".

I would think he would know, right?

He's a democratically elected politician. He knows what the Intelligence Community can do, at least by reputation.

And he casually says this, almost as a gleeful warning to the president.

Creepy AF.

But yeah. The democratically elected overseers of these agencies will keep them in line, right?
  

Wadsworth wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
We are talking about this government, aren't we?  If we were any other kind of government like China or NK, we would not even be having this discussion because you would not even be allowed to own a gun. 


Vypr wrote on Oct 15th, 2019 at 8:25am:
By all accounts Syria was somewhat calm.
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Queshank
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Re: The Permanent State and the Intelligence Community are Dangerous
Reply #27 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:43pm
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Demos wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 1:02pm:
With regard to this question, I would say you should care if it was part of an attempt to use public resources for private benefit.

It's not as if this was some principled stance, and the spigot was turned back on after all of this blew up.

It is possible to be concerned about all of these things.


The question is ... is this worse than everything every other politician has done for the past 70 years. 

As I said in another thread ... this is basically the 20th and 21st century history of American "diplomacy:"

"Nice country you've got here.  Be a shame if anything should happen to it."

But NOW ... because Trump is president ... that's extortion and bribery.  Bitch, please.

Queshank
  

The question isn't whether or not we're descended from monkeys.  The question is, when are we going to stop descending?
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Demos
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Re: The Permanent State and the Intelligence Community are Dangerous
Reply #28 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:53pm
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Queshank wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:43pm:
The question is ... is this worse than everything every other politician has done for the past 70 years. 

As I said in another thread ... this is basically the 20th and 21st century history of American "diplomacy"...

Except that this wasn't - allegedly - done for any policy reason or public benefit, but for personal benefit.

And I think you would agree that past actions don't excuse Trump's.

We can place these concerns on a continuum, imo. Trump and his issues are temporary. The issues described in the OP are a longer term problem and won't change without effective oversight, which is sorely lacking. For example, does anyone think Congress is really going to do anything about this:

CIA-Backed Afghan Paramilitaries Behind Unlawful Killing Surge

Nope.
  
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Queshank
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Re: The Permanent State and the Intelligence Community are Dangerous
Reply #29 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 3:06pm
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Demos wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:53pm:
Except that this wasn't - allegedly - done for any policy reason or public benefit, but for personal benefit.

And I think you would agree that past actions don't excuse Trump's.


No they don't.    But the operative word is "allegedly."

And JFK was allegedly killed by a second gunman.  If that's someone's opinion, probably nothing I can do to shake that either.

Quote:
We can place these concerns on a continuum, imo. Trump and his issues are temporary. The issues described in the OP are a longer term problem and won't change without effective oversight, which is sorely lacking. For example, does anyone think Congress is really going to do anything about this:

CIA-Backed Afghan Paramilitaries Behind Unlawful Killing Surge

Nope.


Nope.  But there's a very good chance if Trump politically survives being taken out by people able to get back at you "six ways from Sunday," future politicians might be emboldened to try.

Queshank
  

The question isn't whether or not we're descended from monkeys.  The question is, when are we going to stop descending?
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