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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Majority of Trump-slaves say Trump better president than Lincoln (Read 693 times)
The D-Man
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Re: Majority of Trump-slaves say Trump better president than Lincoln
Reply #20 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 4:09am
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Is there anything that says the same person can't be on all our money? I think Trump should be on there to show how grateful we are.
  

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Cades Cove
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Re: Majority of Trump-slaves say Trump better president than Lincoln
Reply #21 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 4:17am
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The D-Man wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 4:09am:
Is there anything that says the same person can't be on all our money? I think Trump should be on there to show how grateful we are.


Only if they use this picture.




  

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Re: Majority of Trump-slaves say Trump better president than Lincoln
Reply #22 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 4:39am
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Vypr wrote on Nov 30th, 2019 at 11:05am:
A majority of Republicans say President Trump is a better leader than former President Abraham Lincoln, according to this week’s Economist/YouGov weekly tracking poll.

Fifty-three percent of Republicans said Trump was a better president when compared to Lincoln, while 47 percent chose the Civil War-era leader.

Lincoln still overwhelmingly beats Trump among all Americans, 75 percent to 25 percent, with the vast majority of Democrats and Independents choosing the former president.

While impeachment and other controversies surrounding Trump continue to dominate headlines, polls have shown the president maintaining a strong approval rating among Republicans.

The Economist/YouGov poll found that 87 percent of those in the GOP either somewhat or strongly approve of the job he’s doing as president.

Trump in the past has boasted of his approval rating within the party, comparing it to Lincoln.


FULL:
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/472460-poll-majority-of-republicans-...


Well today Lincoln would be seen as a Democrat. Todays Republicans would allow the south to leave due to equal rights for homosexuals and minorities:Smiley.

How can they be compared? The time period, laws, constitution, and life itself is much different.

Lincoln was no savior. Nor always honest. He wanted to keep it together and succeeded. Trump is tearing us apart. Liberals hate America more now then they ever did due to his tweets Wink
  

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Re: Majority of Trump-slaves say Trump better president than Lincoln
Reply #23 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 4:41am
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RWB wrote on Nov 30th, 2019 at 6:52pm:
Don't know about Lincoln BUT Definitely a 100 times better than the little wannabe Messiah obama.

President Obama
  

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The D-Man
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Re: Majority of Trump-slaves say Trump better president than Lincoln
Reply #24 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 5:43am
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JohnnyB1OFdaFEW wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 4:39am:
Well today Lincoln would be seen as a Democrat. Todays Republicans would allow the south to leave due to equal rights for homosexuals and minorities:Smiley.

How can they be compared? The time period, laws, constitution, and life itself is much different.

Lincoln was no savior. Nor always honest. He wanted to keep it together and succeeded. Trump is tearing us apart. Liberals hate America more now then they ever did due to his tweets Wink


This is why he deserves to be on all our money.
  

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Re: Majority of Trump-slaves say Trump better president than Lincoln
Reply #25 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 5:47am
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JohnnyB1OFdaFEW wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 4:41am:
President Obama
obama=
Most corrupt president and Administration in history
  

AMERICA LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT         BITCHES
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Re: Majority of Trump-slaves say Trump better president than Lincoln
Reply #26 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 6:11am
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RWB wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 5:47am:
obama=
Most corrupt president and Administration in history

Obama=
Pretty cool Cool , but don't judge a book by his cover.
  

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Re: Majority of Trump-slaves say Trump better president than Lincoln
Reply #27 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 7:49am
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Little Lulu wrote on Nov 30th, 2019 at 11:10am:
biased data

you can't really expect a good patriotic southerner to consider Lincoln any more than a war criminal.


OMG, give it up.  The South lost.  We accepted them back into our nation with little penalty for their stupidity and treasonoust act, and we all buried the dead together, both the South and the North.

As for the question asked, both Lincoln and Trump dealt or are dealing with huge problems that have raised their ugly heads and needed solutions during each of their Presidencies.  Unfortunately, Lincoln didn't live to see the solution attained, but it was.  President Trump is in the process of attaining his goal of "cleaning the swamp". and it's definitely angering the swamp people.  It's going to be an ugly mess before the project is completed, but when he is re-elected the cleaning will continue.  Scares the heck out of some of our Schiff's and Nadler types.  I love it!
  
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Re: Majority of Trump-slaves say Trump better president than Lincoln
Reply #28 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 7:42pm
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Tiberius wrote on Nov 30th, 2019 at 8:50pm:
What then use should such libertarian-leaning Republicans have for Donald Trump, who in effect has suspended the writ of habeas corpus for many thousands of immigrants, without satisfying the constitutional requirement of invasion or rebellion first?

At least Lincoln could point to a clear case of rebellion when he complied with an act of Congress authorizing the suspension.

Not so with Trump. So why the studied silence from the libertarian-leaning American Right?




A few things.

1. You bring up a good point about how the libertarian-leaning Republicans shouldn't have much use for Trump either. However, I wasn't trying to suggest that they did.

My point was that for those people, putting Trump above Lincoln is no act of veneration as they have little regard for Lincoln in the first place. They would likely consider Lincoln worse than Trump as many of them think Lincoln set us on the path toward an ever-increasing federal government, where Trump is simply following, rather than establishing that path.

TLDR: Unlike most of the country, they can put someone above Lincoln and still have littler use for either man.

2. What makes you think libertarian-leaning Republicans have been silent? Some like George Will have been very vocal to the point of leaving the party. Granted, he's technically no longer a "libertarian-leaning Republican" but he was until the 2016 election and he's the same man with the same values he always had. Leaving the party is part of how many of us chose to speak out. Sure, that might not affect the poll as this data focuses on those that still consider themselves Republican, but I think it unfair to criticize "libertarian-leaning Republicans" as a whole when many of those people only left the party because the party followed Trump. They still fit the definition of "libertarian-leaning Republican" that existed in 2015.

3. Having said all of that, I've seen the way some Trump supporters follow Trump, blindly disregarding what they once considered important if Trump disregards it and vice versa. I have no excuse for their behavior. It disappoints me greatly.
  

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Re: Majority of Trump-slaves say Trump better president than Lincoln
Reply #29 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 8:24pm
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02/09/2001•Thomas J. DiLorenzo


Americans have been led to believe that when they celebrate Abraham Lincoln’s birthday each year on February 12 they are celebrating freedom, the preservation of the union, and a reaffirmation of the principles of the Declaration of Independence. This belief is a testament to the notion that in war the victors get to write the history.

Lincoln will probably be forever known as the "Great Emancipator" because of the Emancipation Proclamation. But every Lincoln scholar knows something that few Americans are aware of: The Emancipation Proclamation freed no one, because it specifically exempted those areas of the southern states that were at the time under the control of the federal armies while allowing slavery to exist in the "loyal" border states of Maryland and Kentucky and in Washington, D.C. itself.

"The principle [of the Proclamation] is not that a human being cannot justly own another," the London Spectator observed on October 11, 1862, "but that he cannot own him unless he is loyal to the United States" government.

As Lincoln stated in a famous, August 22, 1862 letter to New York Tribune editor Horace Greeley, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

The Emancipation Proclamation was a propaganda strategy designed to deter England from supporting the Confederacy. It came as a complete surprise to most

Northerners, who thought they were fighting and dying by the tens of thousands to preserve the union. As a result, there were draft riots in New York City; a desertion crisis was created in the U.S. army, with some 200,000 deserters, according to historian Gary Gallagher; and war bond sales plummeted. According to James McPherson, the "dean" of "Civil War" historians, Union soldiers "were willing to risk their lives for the Union, but not for black freedom . . . . They professed to feel betrayed."

Slavery was ended in 1866 with the Thirteenth Amendment, but at the cost of 620,000 lives; hundreds of thousands more that were crippled for life; and the near destruction of almost half the nation’s economy. By contrast, dozens of other countries (including Argentina, Colombia, Chile, all of Central America, Mexico, Bolivia, Uruguay, the French and Danish colonies, Ecuador, Peru, and Venezuela) ended slavery peacefully during the first 60 years of the nineteenth century. Why not the U.S.?

Lincoln may have "saved" the Union in a geographic sense, but his war destroyed the union defined as a voluntary association of states. Forcing a state to remain in the union at gunpoint renders that state a conquered province, not a genuine partner. This was the overwhelming sentiment of Northern opinion makers at the outset of the war.

As Horace Greeley wrote on March 21, 1861: "The great principle embodied by Jefferson in the Declaration is that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed." If southerners wanted to secede, "they have a clear right to do so." "Nine out of ten of the people of the North," Greeley wrote, were opposed to forcing South Carolina to remain in the Union.

As of 1857, writes Roy Basler, the editor of Lincoln’s Collected Works, Lincoln had rarely ever mentioned the issue of slavery, and even then, "when he spoke of respecting the Negro as a human being, his words lacked effectiveness." What did preoccupy Lincoln’s mind throughout his twenty-eight year political career prior to becoming president was the political agenda of the Whig Party and of the man whom he revered most in life, the Kentucky slaveowner Henry Clay, whom Lincoln eulogized in 1852 as "the great parent of Whig principles" and "the fount from which my own political views flowed."

And those political views were clearly stated by Lincoln when he first ran for the Illinois legislature in 1832: "My politics are short and sweet, like the old woman’s dance. I am in favor of a national bank . . . in favor of the internal improvements system and a high protective tariff." These three things -- protectionism, government subsidies to railroad and canal-building companies, and central banking -- were called the "American System" by Henry Clay. Economists have another word for them: "mercantilism."

Murray Rothbard accurately defined mercantilism as "a system of statism which employed economic fallacy to build up a structure of imperial state power, as well as special subsidy and monopolistic privilege to individuals or groups favored by the state." This is what Lincoln devoted his entire political career to achieving. He was a master politician who once told a friend that his career ambition was to be "the DeWitt Clinton of Illinois." DeWitt Clinton was the notoriously corrupt governor of New York who is credited with inventing the spoils system.

The so-called American System of mercantilism could only be implemented by a highly centralized government of the sort that the U.S. Constitution attempted to deter. That’s why it could only be put into place by force of arms, which it was. As soon as Lincoln maneuvered the South Carolinians into firing the first shot (at a customs house, Fort Sumter) tariff rates were immediately raised to an average of 47 percent and higher, and remained historically high for decades after the war.

During the war Lincoln established a number of tyrannical precedents, including unconstitutionally conducting a war without the consent of Congress; suspending habeas corpus; conscripting railroads and censoring telegraph lines; imprisoning without trial some 30,000 northern citizens for merely voicing opposition to the war; deporting a member of Congress, Clement L. Vallandigham of Ohio, for opposing Lincoln’s income tax proposal at a Democratic Party political rally; shutting down hundreds of Northern newspapers and imprisoning their editors for questioning his war policies; ordering federal troops to intimidate voters into voting Republican; and intentionally waging war against civilians.

The second plank of the American System of mercantilism, central banking, was achieved with the National Currency Acts of 1863 and 1864, and there was a virtual explosion of government subsidies to railroads and other businesses that bankrolled the Republican Party. The inevitable consequence was the notorious corruption of the Grant administrations.

In 1861 Senator John Sherman, brother of General William Tecumseh Sherman and a major power in the Republican Party, announced that "Those who elected Mr. Lincoln expect him to secure to free labor its just right to the Territories of the United States; to protect . . . by wise revenue laws, the labor of our people; to secure the public lands to actual settlers . . . ; to develop the internal resources of the country by opening new means of communications between the Atlantic and Pacific."

Translating from the politician’s idiom into plain English, this meant that Lincoln’s main objective was always protectionism for Northern manufacturers; buying votes with cheap federal land sales; and the purchase of even more votes and campaign contributions through a massive spoils system created by government subsidies to the railroad industry. The corrupt political strategy of DeWitt Clinton writ large is Abraham Lincoln’s true economic legacy.




Image source:  commons.wikimedia.org


Author:






Contact Thomas J. DiLorenzo

Thomas DiLorenzo is professor of economics at Loyola University Maryland and a member of the senior faculty of the Mises Institute. He is the author of The Real Lincoln; How Capitalism Saved America; Lincoln Unmasked; Hamilton's Curse; Organized Crime: The Unvarnished Truth About Government; and The Problem with Socialism.
  

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