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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution.
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution. (Read 758 times)
Mojo-Jojo
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Re: Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution.
Reply #70 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 5:08pm
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Heh, the OP reminded me of last week's TIME cover story...

How America's Elites Lost Their Grip

...and I've been seeing the term Woke Capitalism in various articles.

As we're on a spectrum of "free market" through "State Market", experimenting with different policies in an effort to make the union better, is fine by me. Capitalism won the markets war, now we get to make it even better, despite cries from the binaries.
  

If you are more fortunate than others, build a longer table, not a taller fence.

Oh noes! Virtue Signaling!!
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atreyu
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Re: Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution.
Reply #71 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 6:05pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 1:08pm:
You deny that capitalism has generated anything good


I've not seen anyone make that argument.   Speaking of straw-man.

Also correlation does not equal causation.
  
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TowardLiberty
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Re: Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution.
Reply #72 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:14pm
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atreyu wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 6:05pm:
I've not seen anyone make that argument.   Speaking of straw-man.


Are you sure about that?

The D-Man wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 8:48pm:
It’s time for an economic revolution. Capitalism today is failing us, killing us, and robbing from our children’s future.

--Mark Ruffalo

Tiberius wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:40pm:
Capitalists have driven up the prices of basic foods such that the human cannot afford to buy any food.

Fiddler wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 1:01pm:
Capitalism almost invariably privatizes profits and socializing losses..


I'm getting push back from people who take issue with the idea that capitalism provided the context for the great enrichment, that 3000% income growth we have enjoyed since 1800 which is unique in human history.

Yeah, that's essentially a group of people who can't give capitalism *any* credit for anything.

Quote:
Also correlation does not equal causation.


That's cute and all but these empirical arguments are married and integrated with causal arguments.

Might as well post "something something trickle down."
  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner

"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
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atreyu
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Re: Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution.
Reply #73 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:30pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:14pm:
Are you sure about that?




I'm getting push back from people who take issue with the idea that capitalism provided the context for the great enrichment, that 3000% income growth we have enjoyed since 1800 which is unique in human history.

Yeah, that's essentially a group of people who can't give capitalism *any* credit for anything.


That's cute and all but these empirical arguments are married and integrated with causal arguments.

Might as well post "something something trickle down."



Yep I'm sure.

I've not seen any argument that's compelling.  Just arguments supporting the correlation.





  
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TowardLiberty
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Re: Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution.
Reply #74 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:33pm
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atreyu wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:30pm:
Yep I'm sure.

I've not seen any argument that's compelling.  Just arguments supporting the correlation.

Look at where growth is quickening the most in the last 30-40 years: India and China. Two countries which had been mired in poverty until rather recently in their history, prior to when they liberalized and opened themselves up to trade and entrepreneurship. Prior to their flirtation with markets, commercialism and dare I say it... capitalism.

They aren't trying out socialism, 5 year plans, or industrial policy in those SEZ's. They are trying out market capitalism in some form or another.
« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:40pm by TowardLiberty »  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner

"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
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TowardLiberty
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Re: Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution.
Reply #75 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:36pm
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There is an obvious casual argument to be made between the mode of production (the use of money and exchange, entrepreneurship, competition) and the production of new goods and services, rising living standards and technological advancement.

Don't pretend it doesn't exist. Don't play stupid.
  

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"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
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TowardLiberty
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Re: Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution.
Reply #76 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:39pm
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Okay left-wing friends, if capitalism/ the liberal-commercial order/ free exchange and entrepreneurship governed by prices, profits and losses is not the context which made the Great Enrichment possible (that 3000% gain in incomes since 1800) then what did?

What is responsible if not capitalism and the widespread social cooperation it makes possible through the market process?
  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner

"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
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Little Lulu
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Re: Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution.
Reply #77 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:57pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:39pm:
Okay left-wing friends, if capitalism/ the liberal-commercial order/ free exchange and entrepreneurship governed by prices, profits and losses is not the context which made the Great Enrichment possible (that 3000% gain in incomes since 1800) then what did?

What is responsible if not capitalism and the widespread social cooperation it makes possible through the market process?


Try to pay better attention:

Little Lulu wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 11:10am:
Or maybe this has more to do with the mass mechanization of agriculture and transport? With improved growing/harvest/storage/crop rotation practices? With finally tilling the rich soil of the steppes to grow wheat for export instead of grass to feed grazing livestock? With the addition of the American midland to grow vast amounts of grain?

Ya think?

  
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TowardLiberty
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Re: Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution.
Reply #78 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 8:01pm
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Little Lulu wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:57pm:
Try to pay better attention:


There are millions of inventions and improvements that have been made and they are all the indirect result of the mode of production we enjoy.

Inventions, new goods and services, higher wages... none of it "falls out of the sky or washes up from the ocean shore." It is the product of risk taking and investment in the context of the market process. Ergo.. capitalism.

This has been said already.
  

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"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
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Fiddler
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Re: Mark Ruffalo: Capitalism is killing us. It's time for an economic revolution.
Reply #79 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 8:04pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 7:14pm:
Are you sure about that?


You're quick to add ..

Fiddler wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 1:01pm:
Capitalism almost invariably privatizes profits and socializing losses..


..  to support your position but you do so dishonestly.


I'm on record as saying  .. .

Fiddler wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 1:01pm:
Oh I don't deny those things occurred..


..to your  ..

TowardLiberty wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 12:43pm:
Oh yea.. there's no causal argument linking capitalism to growth in living standards, falling prices, production, technological advancement... etc.

None at all.
.


(Said in sarcasm but clear that you attribute those achievements to capitalism.)

An honest person would reconsider placing me in that list.



  

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